Thorns for Creationists

Here I will put a few ideas down about natural phenomena that are difficult to impossible to explain by the creationist hypothesis.

Limestone caves: Many creationists assume that the earth is young, less than 10,000 years, and that geological features are explainable by the "flood". How could limestone caves form in a flood? That's presumably easy - by rapid erosion - but then the intricate layered forms in the caves are hard to explain. The more difficult question to answer is: how did the stalactites form? The rate of deposition is measurable. Just how old are they?
Ice and other layers:
- In central Greenland and the Antartic snow fall forms yearly layers on the ice sheet. One can count individual ice layers, and they go back for at least 110,000 years. They layers trap dust and gases. Dust increases every spring because it is windier. The isotopic oxygen composition of the gases changes, giving a record of the temperature. These layers could not have formed in a flood, so a global flood did not occur. They must be this old because one can count them and one can confirm that the layering still occurs today. So the history of the earth is at least 110,000 years, more than an order of magnitude larger than claimed by creationists (7,000 years). The creationist hypothesis must be ruled out.
  References:
  - Scientific American, February 1998, Greenland Ice Cores: Frozen in time, Richard B. Alley and Michael L. Bender. page 80-85. The article is available on line.
  - Ice cores go back as long as 200,000 years according to THE QUATERNARY SCIENCES INSTITUTE Department of Earth Sciences, University of Waterloo, WATERLOO, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1. (Image posted with permission, permission required to reproduce. Image curtesy of: Alan V. Morgan Administrative Director, Canadian Geoscience Council, Department of Earth Sciences, University of Waterloo, WATERLOO, Ontario, Canada N2L 3G1 Phone: (CANADA + (519) 888-4567 EXT. 3029) - Office Fax: (519) 746-0183 E-Mail: avmorgan@uwaterloo.ca CGC Home Page: www.geoscience.ca )
  - International Glaciological Society
  - Example: Taylor Dome Ice Core Data go back 130,000 years or more.
    - Taylor Dome Ice Core Data
  - NOAA Paleoclimatology Program International Ice Core Data Cooperative Current Data Holdings
  - U.S. National Ice Core Laboratory, Denver, CO.
- A report in Science (vol 288, 12 May 2000 p. 945) shows a picture of varying thickness in lake sediment layers. This could not be deposited in a single event, and they go back (at least) 17,500 years.
- Rock layers go back millions of years. There must be hundereds of relevant references, but I have not gathered them.
- Distorted rock layers are quite difficult to understand in terms of a world wide flood only 7000 years ago. Such a flood would create flat layers of sediment. So why is it so common to find incredible plastic distortions? A really nice one is Sidling Hill MD. There one finds a spectacular syncline, a "smiling" formation. Even if one imagined that the earth bent that much in the last 7000 years - and it doesn't move that quickly now - how could it be so isolated on a hill? Something's spectacularly wrong with the creationist world viewpoint.
  - Sidling Hill (my copy)
  - How all formations would look without distortions. (my copy)
- Radioactive dating: "Radiometric Dating: A Christian Perspective" by Dr. Roger C. Wiens, Division of Geological & Planetary Sciences, California Institute of Technology.
- Is mimicry a thorny issue? A Thorn Bug (Membracid). Like many other arthropods, this thorn bug has been able to survive, in part, because it blends so well with its surroundings. The bug looks so much like the nearby thorn, that animals that would like to eat it have trouble finding it. ==Smithsonian Photo #78-12813 by Chip Clark. Copyright 1993, Smithsonian Institution. Do not reproduce without written permission. http://www.si.edu/.
- See also the discussion of Michael Behe's ideas and Roman Archs.
- Branchial Remnants: A friend was approached by somebody who suddenly recognized the meaning of holes in my friend's neck. Both my friend and her sister have these holes, which are reminants of the gill system we have as embryos. The system usually closes up the gill holes, but it can stay open. Now, why would any sensible engineer design a system in land animals that makes it look like we used to swim? For more information:
  - search for Branchial Remnants at Pub Med as of 2001 Mar 21
  - search for Branchial Remnants at www.alltheweb.com
    - Orofacial Embryology III: Branchial Arches at the University of the Pacific School of Dentistry.
    - The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin: "We may cease marvelling at the embryo of an air-breathing mammal or bird having branchial slits and arteries running in loops, like those of a fish which has to breathe the air dissolved in water by the aid of well-developed branchiae." in CHAPTER XIV. MUTUAL AFFINITIES OF ORGANIC BEINGS:
      MORPHOLOGY -- EMBRYOLOGY -- RUDIMENTARY ORGANS.
    - Branchial Anomalies by Dr. Joe Edmonds, M.D.
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origin: 1999 October 13
updated: 2004 Sep 23